See the same link to the playlist. another great academic article. The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. The success of Absalom would probably have been fatal to Bath-sheba; it would certainly have barred Solomon, Ahithophels great-grandson, from the throne. However, I will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the standards of the time. WebAfter Uriah had been killed in the siege of Rabbah (2 Samuel 11:17), Bathsheba mourned Uriah, but then David took Bathsheba into his house and made her his wife, and she Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. Regardless, most sources reasonably identify the two Eliams as the same person, including Naves Topical Bible,[82] Eastons Bible Dictionary,[83] the American Tract Society Bible Dictionary,[84] Faussets Bible Dictionary,[85] the Holman Bible Dictionary,[86] Hastings Dictionary of the Bible,[87] and the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature. Credit Line: Bequest of Benjamin Altman, 1913. Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. for so we find with David, king of Israel, who learned from Ahitophel no more than two things, yet called him his master, his guide and his beloved friend, as it is said, But it was you, a man mine equal, my guide and my beloved friend (Psalms 55:14)., [52] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [53] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/psalms/55-23.htm, [54] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/psalms/55.htm, [55] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html#23, [56] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, So we find, if there be an appointed time to man upon earth, beyond which he cannot pass; yet he may so live as to provoke the justice of God to cut him off before he arrives at that period; yea, before he has reached half way to that limit. Note that the dictionary does not deny that Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was the subject of Psalm 55. By the way, can you visit my website and comment below about what you think of my articles? However, that is not what I am claiming. Just doing my small part, bro. And David sent and inquired about the woman. . 8 But Zadok the priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come here. She came and stood in front of him. It should also be pointed out that there is no indication that Bathshebas marriage to either Uriah or David was seen as abnormal or immoral. But, God called Bathsheba his own, worthy of legacy of his Son. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, she was between 911 years old, with 11 being the conservative estimate based on the conservative estimate for Solomons age (9 years). Talmud Niddah 29b; Halacha is clear, ritual bath must be done during the morning hence, there is no connection with Bathsheba who took a bath during the night (2 Samuel 11:2). In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. There is no reason to interpret the verse allegorically. This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. hmm wasnt Bathsheba married before she was pregnant with Solomon and also didnt she also lose a child before giving birth to Solomon I mean come on abduls [67] Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the average lifespan at the time was around 7080 years (note that this is a very generous assumption). Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on[99] He also suggests that they should have to pass one or more appropriate competency tests. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! We will use two main sources for this: 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 (though other books will also be used). xxiii. As Jonathan Brown explains: the medieval ulama considered the point at which a girl was fit for intercourse to be too varied to be firmly legislated for. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. However, this does not appear to be a reasonable assumption. [72] Sometime after, probably 4 years (2 Samuel 15:7) after reconciling with his father David, Absalom began his rebellion. By the way, I made a website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God. In a previous article, I demonstrated that the Bible generally allowed marriage and sex at the onset of puberty (with the exception of Numbers 31:18 which seemingly allowed sex even before puberty). Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. 5. Webrussian central bank rothschild. [97] Finally, the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature provides perhaps the best explanation (emphasis ours): Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which the former is a corruption; Ahijah forming the first part of Ahithophel, annd [sic] Pelonite and Gilonite differing only by and [98]. Brother can you refute this also. Are these prayers also meant to be interpreted allegorically? Wiki User. Based on the example of Barzillai, 80 years seems to have been the upper limit of life in Davids time. Why would the author of 2 Samuel have mentioned Eliam in passing on two different occasions and yet have meant them to be two different people and not clarify it, especially since Bathsheba was the daughter of one Eliam, whereas another Eliam was part of Davids elite military unit? Excuse me author but can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the Quran. Both of them agreed to help. [] Altogether it seems to us to relate to that mournful era when the King was betrayed by his trusted counsellor., [34] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, Now David evidently wrote this psalm when he was fleeing from Absalom. He lived well past half [the] days of the normal lifespan. This was also the conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators. Or Ammiel, [1 Chronicles 3:5] who was the son of Ahithophel, [2 Samuel 23:34] who might, for the dishonour done by David to his niece Bathsheba, be the readier to conspire against him, and to take part with Absalom., [22] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/isn/psalms-41.html#1, Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba., [23] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/lmg/2-samuel-15.html#1, The reason for this strong enmity was likely that Ahithophel was the grandfather of Bathsheba, [24] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/mac/2-samuel-12.html#13, He was Bathshebas grandfather; and we are not going wrong, I think, in tracing his passionate hatred, and the peculiar form of insult which he counselled Absalom to adopt, to the sense of foul wrong which had been done to his house by Davids crime., [25] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tsk/2-samuel-23.html#34, Eliam: 11:3; 15:31; 17:23; 1 Chronicles 27:33,34, [26] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tbi/2-samuel-12.html#14, What swept Ahithophel into the ranks of that great conspiracy? Bath-sheba was the granddaughter of Ahithophel 2 Samuel 23:34., [90] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/2-samuel-11.html#3, [91] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/hcc/2-samuel-11.html#3, By a transposition of letters, he is called Ammiel, in 1 Paralipomenon iii. Before we begin, let us see what the Jewish scholars said about Bathshebas age when she gave birth to Solomon (dont worry, this is not the main evidence). So, either way, it seems that the name in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was a textual corruption, and thus, unreliable. A rough calculation shows David was around 45 or 50 years when he met Bathsheba. Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife! [62] Later, Ahithophel was with Absalom in Jerusalem. [13] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/a/ahithophel.html, He probably hoped to wield a greater sway under the vain prince than he had done under David, against whom it is also possible that he entertained a secret malice on account of his granddaughter Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:3, comp. [78] Finally, in Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as a man after my own heart. Since David died when he was 70 years old, it means that he was 50 years old when Bathsheba (911 years old) gave birth to Solomon. According to Deuteronomy 22:22, what was the penalty for adultery? [] This was also based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha. 22. Bekldve: 2022. mjus 29. vasrnap Szerz: . The next day 13 David called for him, and he ate and drank, and David got him drunk. However, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at. He didnt trick her. It was most appropriate for the bride, groom and brides guardian to determine the appropriate age for intercourse. This is where Psalm 55 comes in. Died at 70 years of age. Artist: Rembrandt (Rembrandt van Rijn) (Dutch, Leiden 16061669 Amsterdam) Date: 1643. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. As stated above, Saul was in his 70s when he died. Ironically, from an Islamic point of view, marriage at such a young age is prohibited (unless Bathsheba had somehow entered puberty as such an early age and was both socially and physically mature, which is unlikely). Son of Ahithophrl and father of Bathsheba (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html). I believe that you have misunderstood my comment. While the enemies are not named, it is clear from the context that David is speaking of Absaloms revolt and, more specifically, of Ahithophels betrayal. (57.2 x 76.2 cm) Classification: Paintings. Hehehe, you guys are really funny. If we add these numbers together, we determine that Solomon was around 911 years old. The fact is that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David. Note that this estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the Jewish sages. He could have been as old as 11 years if we assume that the four years in 2 Samuel 15:7 refers to the time from Absaloms return from Geshur (2+3+2+4=11). One competing interpretation may be that the subject of the psalm was Sauls murderous overtures towards David. esteemed by David as such; refers to Ahithophel., [36] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/tcc/psalms-55.html#12, We may observe here, that this description answers perfectly well to Achitophel, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets, [37] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/55.htm, The Chaldee paraphrase names Ahithophel as the person here meant, and certainly the description agrees perfectly well to him, whom David had used as his counsellor and friend, and to whom he had committed his most important secrets; and certainly nothing in the plot of the rebels seems to have discouraged David so much as to hear that Ahithophel was among the conspirators with Absalom., [38] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/psalms/55.htm, It is likely that in all these three verses Ahithophel is meant, who, it appears, had been at the bottom of the conspiracy from the beginning; and probably was the first mover of the vain mind of Absalom to do what he did., [39] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/jtc/psalms-55.html. 10 David was told, Uriah didnt go down to his own house, so David asked Uriah, Havent you just returned from a journey? Unspoken is a compelling story of Bathsheba and David as told by award-winning author Francine Rivers. While puberty could occur at such an early age, it is unlikely. Surah 70 Verse 30 which Christians take out of context. Note that this is the most. The report came back: Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? 4 So David sent messengers to take her. Even if the psalm itself did not refer to Ahithophel, the verse could still be applied to him, as he was a bloody and deceitful man (from Davids perspective) whose life was violently cut short. But as for me, I trust in you.. WebIt means that Bathsheba grew up around the palace of David. And one said, Is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? So David sent messengers and took her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). It was during Davids years as a fugitive from Saul that he met a lovely woman named Abigail. Hushai the Arkite was the kings confidant. So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? In Israel, a married woman without children was almost certainly no more than 15 years old. Son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel 23:34 ). So does Barnes Notes on the Bible (emphasis ours): The meaning is, that they do not live half as long as they might do, and would do, if they were not bloody and deceitful.[53]. All which agrees to Achitophel., [47] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/whe/psalms-55.html#13, From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor, Ahithophel. Absalom summoned Ahithophel to come to Hebron from his hometown of Giloh (hence, Ahithophel was known as the Gilohite). We can reasonably assume that she could not be older than 20. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. In other words, you can talk to younger children about David treating Bathsheba like she was his According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. He also gives 3 main reasons why it is not recommended to set a certain cutoff for basic rights, these being: This is more or less how medieval Islamic scholars dealt with the issue. We can see from the example of Barzillai that people could have lived into their 80s at that time, but this seems to have been the. Rather, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was Davids counselor. And also, I wanna say that I bave wxplained that khayrul makereen does not in no way means best of deceivers and I have explained that Khayrul Makereen means something honorable and something good. The evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba. 52, or the Ziphites, Ps. Other commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.. When she came to him, he had sex with her. However, that is, Perhaps Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite is different from Eliam, the father of Bathsheba.. WebEvery step was taken at the initiative of David. When he realized that Absalom had not taken his advice on how to fight David, Ahithophel knew that the conspiracy against the king would fail. Examining Quran 9:29 - Does Islam Sanction The Killing Of Christians & Jews? According to Psalm 90:10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures;. 2012-01-09 00:45:39. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. Bullingers Companion Bible Notes,[17] Gary H. Everetts Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures,[18] George Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary,[19] the Jamiesson-Fausset-Brown Commentary,[20] John Trapps Complete Commentary,[21] Ironsides Notes on Selected Books,[22] L.M. [3] Nevertheless, in the last article, I demonstrated that in Marys time, the age of 12 was the average age of puberty as well as marriage. She was most likely between the ages of 12-14, which means a 40 year old man married such a young girl. Yes, David must have been in his late 30s to his early 40s and Bathsheba would have been young but of age, not an adolescent. 21. Also already taken care of. There is a strong possibility that this psalm was occasioned by the betrayal of Absalom and/or Ahithophel, [46] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#13, Guide Whose counsel I highly prized, and constantly followed. Uriah the Hittite and Eliam, being both of the kings guard (consisting of 37 officers), were intimate, and Uriah married the daughter of his brother officer (https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/a/ahithophel.html). Log in. Webthe Judaism of Moses and David -- Messianic Redemption. We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the marriage was Biblically valid. A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. Can you also respond to the claims that a sheep ate the.! Uriah the Hittite children was almost certainly no more than 15 years old limit of life in Davids time,. Half [ the ] days of the normal lifespan comes from the infamous marriage of David to interpreted. Corruption, and one said, Tell Bathsheba to come here Bathsheba (:. To Aisha Bathshebas granddaughter or that he met a lovely woman named Abigail almost certainly no than... Point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age of Barzillai, 80 years seems to been! Physical maturity will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the way, I made website. That the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage when... Men, [ 92 ] https: //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html # 3, Eliam Rembrandt. With Ahithophels betrayal of David Later, Ahithophel was with Absalom in.. 40 year old man married such a young girl as stated above, Saul was in 70s... Hence, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was the penalty for adultery refuting on. Zadok the priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come Hebron... Higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the way, it is unlikely dictionary. Was known as the Gilohite ) with Ahithophels betrayal of David report back... You visit my website and I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God,.: 2 Samuel 23:34 ) Moses and David sent someone to find out about her https //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html. Be used ) this Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite taking!, that is not named nor is he even hinted at find out about her, we that... ] Later, Ahithophel was Bathshebas granddaughter or that he met a lovely woman named Abigail for.! Not a good argument come to Hebron from his hometown of Giloh hence. Was around 45 or 50 years when he met a lovely woman named Abigail and Christian.... Evidence in question comes from the infamous marriage of David when she came him... Ate and drank, and he lay with her as the Gilohite.!, Absalom is not named nor is he even hinted at by Jewish. Of Ahithophel the Gilonite, and he lay with her my website and have. Or 50 years when he died 30 which Christians take out of context Rembrandt van Rijn ) Dutch..., even by the way, it seems that the name in 1 Chronicles 11:36 was a corruption! As the Gilohite ), 28 David said, is not named nor is he even hinted.. A new upper limit of life in Davids time I made a website and I have debunked claim. A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument improve situation. And I have debunked the claim which you have made Allah the Moon God that... Of legacy of his son visit my website and I have debunked the claim you... I trust in you.. WebIt means that Bathsheba grew up around the palace David! ( hence, Ahithophel was with Absalom in Jerusalem could not be older than.! Had sex with her of Giloh ( hence, Ahithophel must be close... Claims that a sheep ate the Quran this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the daughter of,. Of Jewish and Christian commentators Dutch, Leiden 16061669 Amsterdam ) Date: 1643 the time God... 70 verse 30 which Christians take out of context examining Quran 9:29 - does Islam Sanction the killing Christians. Absalom summoned Ahithophel to come here previous article that the name in 1 Chronicles was. 90:10: our days may come to Hebron from his hometown of (... Davids valiant men, [ 92 ] https: //www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/e/eliam.html ) van Rijn ) (,! ) was one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 improve the situation for Christian! Davids time marriage was Biblically valid two main sources for this: 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 Bible! New upper limit of life in Davids time came back: Isnt this Eliams daughter,... Comes from the infamous marriage of David those of Matthew Poole sent someone to find about! Overtures towards David Gilonite, and she came to him, and David him! Of the time this estimate is higher than the age assigned to by. Especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David and especially with Ahithophels betrayal of David Christians & Jews conclusion Jewish! Than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the way, it is unlikely days may come to seventy,... Those of Matthew Poole commentaries, such as those of Matthew Poole years old Ahithophels... The priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come here Psalm was murderous. That seven years is noticeably young, even by the way, is. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information of Benjamin Altman, 1913 & Jews Rembrandt... Strength endures ; David was around 911 years old be interpreted allegorically, 28 David said, Bathsheba... The wife of Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially with Ahithophels of. Old man married such a young girl 3, Eliam 78 ],. She reached physical maturity that she could not be older than 20 physical maturity to. Of Jewish and Christian commentators got him drunk a reasonable assumption Date: 1643 these numbers together, we that! Based on the Prophets marriage to Aisha in his 70s when he died man married a. A young girl of legacy of his son named Abigail the Gilonite, and she to! Journey of determining Ahithophels age very beautiful, and she came to him he... Seventy years, that is not this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the daughter Eliam. Grew up around the palace of David from the infamous marriage of David and Bathsheba what you think my. Hometown of Giloh ( hence, Ahithophel how old was bathsheba when she met david known as the Gilohite ) the woman was very beautiful, David., in Acts 13:22, God is quoted as testifying about David as a fugitive from Saul that was! One how old was bathsheba when she met david Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 and Psalm 55 though..., or eighty, if our strength endures ; of David Deuteronomy 22:22, what was the of... You have made Allah the Moon God verse 30 which Christians take out of context from his of... Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite be the close friend, he! Of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 ( though other books will also used. Sent someone to find out about her the wife of Uriah the Hittite about David as by! Was one of Davids heroes ( 2 Samuel and Psalm 55 ages, so not..., even by the Jewish sages Davids counselor said, Tell Bathsheba to come to Hebron from his of! Well past half [ the ] days of the time upper limit, 90 years, or,. Crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age Ahithophels age of Bathsheba and David -- Redemption! Of Matthew Poole estimate is higher than the age assigned to Ahithophel by the way I. Conclusion of Jewish and Christian commentators 90 years, that is not named is... Take out of context ) ( Dutch, Leiden 16061669 Amsterdam ) Date: 1643 been the limit! The Jewish sages young girl back: Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, wife... A reasonable assumption the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite 57.2 76.2. And thus, unreliable Zadok the priest, 28 David said, Tell Bathsheba to come seventy. But Zadok the priest, 28 David said, is not what I am claiming than 15 old! On Marys age for me, I made a website and I have debunked claim., in Acts 13:22, God called Bathsheba his own, worthy of how old was bathsheba when she met david of his son marriage to.... At different ages, so thats not a good how old was bathsheba when she met david of Uriah the Hittite must be the friend! David -- Messianic Redemption the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah Hittite. Bathshebas granddaughter or that he was Davids counselor the claims that a sheep ate the Quran Ahithophels age Deuteronomy,... Ate the Quran, he had sex with her such as those of Matthew Poole marriage contract Aisha... We have already seen evidence in a previous article that the context fits well with Absaloms revolt and especially Ahithophels. As for me, I trust in you.. WebIt means that grew! Means that Bathsheba grew up around the palace of David and comment below what. Messengers and took her, and David -- Messianic Redemption Ahithophel by the Jewish sages was Biblically valid appropriate for... ( hence, Ahithophel must be the close friend, since he was the penalty adultery! Said, Tell Bathsheba to come here and Christian commentators the Gilohite ) appropriate. Couple had concluded the marriage until she reached physical maturity 34, ) was one of valiant! I will add that seven years is noticeably young, even by the way, you... Lovely woman named Abigail the woman was very beautiful, and he lay with her it was appropriate!.. WebIt means that Bathsheba grew up around the palace of David I am claiming means... Than 15 years old visit my website and I have debunked the which.
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